CD v Vinyl

This has been done to death, but I've just had an interesting conversation with an older punter. I am in total agreement.

Mixing tunes, which is a very clever art that can be taken to amzing levels, spoilt the dancfloor experience. DJ's stopped playing the tune for the moment and started playing for the mix. Ergo the ability to, "Read a crowd" died. Some DJ's tried to ignore this and played, "To the crowd", they however became a dying breed.

When mixing on Vinyl, you can see the breaks, the drop outs etc. They are a different colour. This makes it easier for the good DJ to drag out some tunes that need playing that might not be practised in the mix...or to mix properly and NOT do it in a vocal break etc. Either or.

When mixing on CD we don't have that ability. This means the DJ has to, "Learn" the tunes more. Ergo this reduces the on the spur of the moment, "Yeah lets play that one" scenario.

Types of music that are not obsessed with the mix, Dub, R&B POP don't have these issues. D&B, House & Garage do.

CD's being better quality is a personal thing, not being able to see those nice dark grooves in the vinyl is a definate disadvantage.

I say all this because after many, many years of doing vinal I've been playing with CD's. It's a litttle like being part blindfolded.



Merry Christmas

Nick,

As an old style DJ for 25 years I cannot get my head around the latest mixing styles at all. One of the talents you had to learn very early on if you wanted to be successful was the ability to read the room. Now it seem to be just an hedonistic experience with the DJ's having a very arrogant "I am the star so enjoy" attitude. When I see some of the Fee's that the top guys make it does make me depressed.

Just glad I only do live sound so I don't have to put in rigs for the tossers.

I enjoyed using vinyl simple because it kept you on your toes it was an experience, like when putting on a LP at home you had to take it out of the sleeve, give it a little clean, gently put it on the TT, lower the arm gently sit back and enjoy.

Turning up with a laptop with a set play list how crap is that?

"Ahh the musings of an ageing old DJ probably better left gently dribbling in the corner"

Tony

should the title be cd v vinyl v laptop!!!!!!!!

yes the art of turntable ism is allmost dead, when i started out as a dj i was 8 years old. I learnt to beat mix on some bsm decks no pitch control. Iplayed alot of partys for m8t etc, and made hundreds of demo tapes for m8ts. one said friend droped one of my tapes off to a local club, not telling me and i ended up going from warm up dj there to full resident by the time i was 19. I spent years before this and after learning to control the crowd and send them on a journey. This was an art and a skill in it self. I cant remember the last time a saw a dj do this...... I was prob one of the last to convert to cd out of all the djs i know playing on the scene. But prob one of the first to convert to a laptop. On a fri or sat night you can go in to most venues and see dodgy dj dave sat on a stool with his laptop on auto mix playing songs, this is not djing..... this too me is a jukebox. What i do like to see is dj's that actualy use there laptop as a tool to remix and create. There where alot of things about cd's that you have said above i agree with but, With the likes of serato, tractor and pcdj decks you can see the audio wave form, you can loop and edit remix on the fly, the only issue i have with laptops is its a laptop!!!!!!. But if you use it with nowledge controlling the crowd and being creative it takes the art or turntable ism to a new level were all is possible in the mix. But a dj should be able to read the crowd and play the right tunes that his crowd wants. Not like some of the dj's out there (i just play) type. WTF you should play all types and be able to cross genre and mix, when a dj can do this, thats when i say he or she is a dj and not a juke box.
just my 10 pence worth

secondly ok im on a rant but for me when i started out, it was just as important to know how to use a mixer as it was to mix. learning how and why we use the gain on each channel, not clipping the mixer etc. All this helps to create a better sound. Why o why do most djs push the mixer so far above what it needs to be. Bad djs create bad setups which also creates bad sound installs, which have so much compression on the rigs so it dont blow, all this means poor sound. If systems where setup correctly the dj would not need to over push the mixers. I still dj week in week out and run a dj agencie, most of the venues i supplie have correctly set up systems, if a dj pushes it too hard and blows a speaker, i charge the dj to get it fixed. A harsh lesson to learn but now i have djs that now how to use a mixer......

Ah this is interesting!

I too am a dj of more years than I now care too remember! smiley13

When I started from a young age I was taught the basics from a family friend who owned a djing business, he taught me: i.e being able too read the crowd (no matter what age), being able too mix all genre's (where poss bare in mind back then it was TK Discosound twin decks!), being able too communicate clearly on the mic, and many more skills that we require as professionals. Now I find myself cringing whenever I go into a club after a gig for a drink and the dj is totally playing for themself, doesn't posses the ability too mix well etc and I find myself thinking "you could never get away with that a few years ago..."

Now I was also on a Dance Radio station in London (not saying who for legal reasons) for two periods. First time round a good few years ago all djs had to be a certain standard and known for their skill etc. Second time last year, oh my how the standards of those "so called djs" had dropped! There was "clangers" going on all over the place! Needless to say I walked!

Something I have noticed along my djing career is djs do have a "rep" and it's not a good one. People have always pushed the systems into the "red" not saying I do :lol: but it's shocking how many djs out there really don't even know how too wire a basic system together!

I would imagin there are alot of djs out there now who have never touched a pair of sl1200/1210s' and wouldn't know where too start! Now me I was lucky I had decks from my first own professional setup as a young teen and made sure I was the master of my decks etc lol. Now all of this midi controlled dj software in my mind has taken the soul out of djing. DVS systems are the way forward in my eyes!

Now as for Vinyl VS CD VS Laptop. You cannot beat vinyl. A good press, cleaned, with a good needle played on a good system should out sound any CD, but with most "dj use" records which are worn it's simply not possible to get that 0 - 100% dynamics as there is crackle, hiss & pop (cousins of Snap Crackle & Pop) where as CD's sound cleaner where in essence their capability is alot less. i.e 16bit 44.100KHz. Where as analogue Vinyl is 1:1. But I know CD's are easier cleaner etc. But what about the new revolution of computer based systems. We have taken a step back. We have these fantastic sounding sound systems now playing 128Kps, 192Kps. 256Kps & 320Kps(ok so 320 is just about exceptable). This in my mind disgusts me! When people say "oh I need as many trakcs as possible" really? So you carried 40.000 records with you in about 400 record boxes with you everywhere then? I think WAV is the only way forward! Atleast 24Bit 96.000KHz sound cards atleast! That is reasonable digital repoduction! Why have some djs become greedy and want 40.000 songs on their pc at the lowest bit rate. It sounds SH!T. We should be harbouring this new technology and making the most of it's quality . So even if that means getting a computer with a bigger HDD capacity or using an external HDD then it should be done! None of this crappy MP3 rubbish! I'm guilty I have MP3's, but only if I can't get it in WAV.

So common people let's fight the war against this crappy quality and make the most of the new technology available!

this is very true street sounds most of my tracks on the pc are 320bits or wav, here lies the proplem. For me like you i spent most of my younger days in record shops hunting down tunes. kids today (god i sound old lol) just down load it from dodgy down load sites for free and dont care about the quality. I have had people come up to me asking if i can play a song on ther ipod, the quality of said tracks to me is unplayable and even ripped off of youtube wtf. But i do love using serato with my 1200's im about to invest in there new version 24bit quality.

bee wrote: this is very true street sounds most of my tracks on the pc are 320bits or wav, here lies the proplem. For me like you i spent most of my younger days in record shops hunting down tunes. kids today (god i sound old lol) just down load it from dodgy down load sites for free and dont care about the quality. I have had people come up to me asking if i can play a song on ther ipod, the quality of said tracks to me is unplayable and even ripped off of youtube wtf. But i do love using serato with my 1200's im about to invest in there new version 24bit quality.

Ahh great mate, let us know what it's like quality wise.

Myself I use Audio Intimidation touch or cd's on SLDZ1200. It's been good for me. Has good latency for scratching and can keep up etc. Totally know what your on about though. It's such a shame that to most people this "bad quality" is fast becomming the norm and to us djs and audio guys is unacceptable.

Well atleast we'll make sure we have good quality recordings for the speaker meet!

All the best

Will Street;)

I have an intellectual affinity to vinyl over cd. It is a more faithful reproduction of the waveform. In the case of records pressed before any digital studios existed it really is as though you are hearing an echo of the original musical rendition. This is especially important to me for old vocal records.

If one wanted to make a copy of a piece of contoured wood we could use one of these:



which is essentially digital. The ends of the individual rods are flat.

The other way we could do this is to use a scribe and copy the contour like this:



From a distance there would be no noticeable difference but upon closer examination the scribe would be a more faithful reproduction of the contour.

That is why I like vinyl over cd

smiley20 this all true. i would never sell any of my vinyl for any amount or my own personal sl1200, but as an entertainer, and due to changes in the industry and customers needs, the move to laptop meets all the needs. in life there is allways compromise, im happy to compromise on alot of things one of these is in the sound quality to a degree smiley19 . yes for me you cant beat the warmth of vinyl the feeling you get playing vinyl and the nostalgic feeling surrounding it, but carrying 10 boxes of records mixer and 2 1200 through the middle of leister square london, (o i missed the 1.5 mile walk there first) 2 hands 2 boxes thats 8 trips on a fri or sat night, too one trip with laptop in one hand, mixer in other leads and other bits in bag on shoulder and still have 100x more tunes on me. Why do you need so many tunes, customers these days think your a crap dj if you dont have the exact mix or song they request, and because venue managers expect you to have that amount...... The days of people coming to hear you dj to hear that new tune you play etc have long gone, now kids rip it off youtube etc the second its aired for the first time. And low and behold if you dont have it that weekend. So by moving with the times keeps me in work and my family warm and fed, A great sounding high quality tune is fantastic but it dont keep us in work, harsh as it sounds but a fact of changing times. And lets be honest I love a great sounding system but how many people out there care what it sounds like as long as they can hear it 99% of customers.

bee wrote: smiley20 this all true. i would never sell any of my vinyl for any amount or my own personal sl1200, but as an entertainer, and due to changes in the industry and customers needs, the move to laptop meets all the needs. in life there is allways compromise, im happy to compromise on alot of things one of these is in the sound quality to a degree smiley19 . yes for me you cant beat the warmth of vinyl the feeling you get playing vinyl and the nostalgic feeling surrounding it, but carrying 10 boxes of records mixer and 2 1200 through the middle of leister square london, (o i missed the 1.5 mile walk there first) 2 hands 2 boxes thats 8 trips on a fri or sat night, too one trip with laptop in one hand, mixer in other leads and other bits in bag on shoulder and still have 100x more tunes on me. Why do you need so many tunes, customers these days think your a crap dj if you dont have the exact mix or song they request, and because venue managers expect you to have that amount...... The days of people coming to hear you dj to hear that new tune you play etc have long gone, now kids rip it off youtube etc the second its aired for the first time. And low and behold if you dont have it that weekend. So by moving with the times keeps me in work and my family warm and fed, A great sounding high quality tune is fantastic but it dont keep us in work, harsh as it sounds but a fact of changing times. And lets be honest I love a great sounding system but how many people out there care what it sounds like as long as they can hear it 99% of customers.

I'm very fortunate that DJing isn't my source of income but rather my Skiing Holiday, so to speak. Plus we put on parties and there is a load of lugging anyway. I can see how the club scene is going. A friend who worked at the End club when it was going said all the djs turned up with laptops.