SALE SECTION ON SP IS A JOKE

Rog Mogale wrote:

saul wrote: lev, if void have any sense, they will still have nothing to do with SP.

Completely correct.

There is no way a speaker manufacturer with a known brand can be seen to have anything to do a site that gives away and promotes the use of DIY speaker plans. No one else does it and for very good reasons.

my point exactly.



In fact there's several other points that could be made on this topic, but i think it might get a few people hot under the collar right now, so i'll save it for another day.

Sorry Rog but I have to disagree with what you are saying

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I think that the forum owners or administrators should be music industry based professionals that have an interest in all things involving speakers as they would then would have the insider knowledge to realise why the membership is so passionate about certain things that happen on the forum----Anyone linked with a manufacturer I agree is a definite no-no but we do need someone that knows the industry.
Its a shame that a deal cannot be done with the guys on here with the name Speakerplans remaining as the overall forum but joining the whole thing together under one roof----I think that this could work out well for everyone but will probably never happen due to what has gone on in the past---Cheers--John.

Robbo wrote: Its a shame that a deal cannot be done with the guys on here with the name Speakerplans remaining as the overall forum but joining the whole thing together under one roof----I think that this could work out well for everyone but will probably never happen due to what has gone on in the past

IMHO, this would defeat the whole purpose of freespeakerplans.com.

As I recall, whatever bureaucratic/manufacturer based nonsense is occurring over there, we are supposed to be free from it over here.

Let us not forget people have been barred & threads deleted from SP, purely because posts were perceived as competitive
to entities aligned with SP. IIRC, this cannot happen here.

Just as SP::Forsale has gone "kaput", we still have fully "operational" for sale forum here.

quod erat demonstrandum

I agree with some of the things you are saying Ray but I still think that its a shame that everyone cannot get their heads together to solve the problems and as an end result, we all finish up on one really great well run forum.

Scenario---Speakerplans goes tits up tomorrow and is permanently closed down by the powers that be (this has now been threatened on two occasions that I know to)----the entire membership moves over here en bloc and we all live happy ever after---problem solved.

Robbo wrote: I agree with some of the things you are saying Ray but I still think that its a shame that everyone cannot get their heads together to solve the problems and as an end result, we all finish up on one really great well run forum.

I used to be a crusader like you Robbo, wanting the best for the forum, and shouting about things that I didn't perceive as right,
we know where that got me. :lol:

Go and look at some of the user's posts, and you'll see, "if you don't like things as they are, go elsewhere".
Fact is, many SP members like things just the way they are, even if they are somewhat dis-functional compared to other audio forums.

SP is the original, and the derivative FSP is free from 99% of the crap stifling SP. So they could never harmoniously co-exist, they
are mutually exclusive by design and nature.

Robbo wrote: Scenario---Speakerplans goes tits up tomorrow and is permanently closed down by the powers that be (this has now been threatened on two occasions that I know to)----the entire membership moves over here en bloc and we all live happy ever after---problem solved.

IF SP closed down, just think it would fracture into number of new forums springing up, as not everyone values a forum free from bias, or manufacturer intervention demanding embarrassing threads/posts being deleted, or members being banned.

Sorry Robbo, but because the industry has involvement is why SP has its problems. If it’s given over to anyone connected with the industry then they are open to being manipulated and posts will continue being deleted and people being banned. Only if industry professionals can have no connection with the admin of SP can it ever be free and that’s where I want it to go. SP started when I didn't have Void or pro audio parts and never knew I was going to have or want any companies at that time. The influence for SP started back in the late 90's when people like myself, DJK, freedie, Tom Danley and Wanye Parham used to chat DIY on forums like the high efficiency asylum forum and to a limited amount on pro sound web. Neither of these places were real DIY forums. One was for Hi Fi buffs the other for end user pro audio types. So I thought I would start a forum for DIY high power audio.

I can't even remember the first platform the forum was hosted on but I think it was a members.tripod site as you could use it for free. I think it was 2001 when I found the webwiz forum and moved it across to that. After a couple of years Bruce contacted me and said that the SP forum was a busy place and would I mind if he used it to do beta testing for new releases of the forum. I said yes and in return Bruce offered to host the speakerplans website and forum on his servers. At the time it was hosted by a US company and I had to pay for the server space and domain name. The server crashed in 2004 and all previous entries were lost, hence why it says no one has been a member before 2004.

I find it quite amusing as people still come up to me and say what a genius stroke of marketing speakerplans was. Ha ha, I wish I was that cleaver and could say, yeah I had all this worked out from the late 90’s, that I would own a speaker company and use a DIY site to get everyone to drop building there own and spend thousands on buying speaker from me. Well as you can see my plan worked, as no one now builds DIY cabs anymore and everyone in the whole world now only uses Void. Fact is that we sell less than 20% of what we make to the UK and in reality there are only about 4 people with a sizeable amount of Void cabs that go on the SP forum, so its no place for me to be a salesman. And I’ve always known this. Just like it’s not a good idea to go on a DIY car builders forum where most will spend 20,000 quid on building there own car and try and sell them a 180,000 quid Ferrari. You sell Ferraris from posh looking car showrooms and by getting to know the right people on golf courses.

Another thing I want to talk about is this fear of the SP forum being shut down over the years. Ha ha, we had a good forum back in the days I used to threaten to pull the plug every 6 months if people didn’t conform. Can you see why I did it now. The fact is that the SP forum has tuned to shit after I walked away and stopped playing a heavy hand there. I got pissed off with being accused of throwing the toys out of the pram and mostly by industry professionals like you Robbo. It’s another reason why I believe industry professionals should not post on a DIY forum. They might give a little bit of insight back occasionally, but on the whole they are there for other purposes and that can only be bad for the forum in the long run.

I’ll get back to the point. And for me I’m with Ray. If SP forum is to get back to its roots of chat about DIY cab building and become what it first was, which is a place where people can say whatever they want, then there can be no connection to the industry, either directly or via hypnosis. I’d personally like to see the forum given to a Peruvian goat handler. As long as he carries out moderation via the rules that are in place he can have the small amount of cash that comes from the links to ebay for his time. No one is going to be able to “get to him” and he won’t have an opinion of who is right or wrong in the matter, all he will know is the rules.

I also think this threads title is a sign of the times. How sad that all you think about is how bad the for sale section has become. Is that all you see the SP forum is good for. And there was me trying to get it back to some kind of place where people could learn from again. Think I’ll go to ebay and start a thread about 8th order bandpass.

And why has Jblinks and Tweeter Box been banned and who did it.

Rog Mogale wrote: I’ll get back to the point. And for me I’m with Ray. If SP forum is to get back to its roots of chat about DIY cab building and become what it first was, which is a place where people can say whatever they want, then there can be no connection to the industry, either directly or via hypnosis. I’d personally like to see the forum given to a Peruvian goat handler. As long as he carries out moderation via the rules that are in place he can have the small amount of cash that comes from the links to ebay for his time. No one is going to be able to “get to him” and he won’t have an opinion of who is right or wrong in the matter, all he will know is the rules.

smiley32

Think title of this thread Rog, is just reflection on latest issues regarding SP, as opposed to the site's total value & worth.

SP is a victim of it's success, so forsale forum issues are just another round of birth pains.

8x years ago when I joined, who would have guessed the For sale forum would attract scammers and thieves, and make forum liable for dodgy transactions?

For sale forum is not the core of the forums existence, but after getting through talking to experts about how things work, and which one to buy, people then often want to buy it. You have people exiting the game selling stuff used, and people in the game, or newbies wanting it. All this under one roof, perfect.

The few screwed it up for the many, so just needs "wise" hands to unravel the mess, and keep the excellent forum working.

Rog Mogale wrote: And why has Jblinks and Tweeter Box been banned and who did it.

Caught in the flak flying around, when disgruntled members made their thoughts known on the abrupt changes.

Don't think jbl_man was responsible for that.

levyte357 wrote:
Think title of this thread Rog, is just reflection on latest issues regarding SP, as opposed to the site's total value & worth.

of course.

let's not go and make any hasty assumptions over what my choice of title meant now Roger.

There's no denying that SP has been an abundant source of useful information over the years. In fact, i would say a relatively large proportion of what i have learnt has been from or via SP in some form or another. I have never seen it is as a platform for selling or business promotion because fundamentally, it's unreliable and unprofessional to use for such purposes, impo.

back to the thread, i just think the sale forum is a bit far removed from the intended ethos of the SP community. Personally, i wouldn't be disappointed if SP was shut down, and just hosted as a locked info archive.

but let's all stay cool, it's only a web forum.

I tell you what Rog, if all of the industry professionals like myself who are supposedly only on the forum for alternative reasons or to line their own pockets were banned then it really would be a sad place.
The forum will never again be a place where DIY and inexperienced enthusiasts can meet or chat to discuss their latest designs or ideas---Without the knowledge and experience of us professionals which we freely bring to the forum then half of its members would be out there running JBL drivers out of phase and amp outputs at 1.3 ohms and wondering why its just gone bang.
We all know that it was your baby Rog but babies grow up and sometimes they grow into something that you may not particularly like or approve of and that is what has happened here, but having said that, the forum has evolved into something that 99% of its membership are proud of being involved with.
We all know that it is always the small minority that spoil things for the vast majority of us and this is why that small minority should never be allowed to win and this is why I will always say my piece and stand up for what I think is right or wrong----Why should the majority of good and interested members be constantly threatened with closure of the forum---I now find this quite ironic that we are having this conversation upon this site which was originally set up due to previous closure threats of Speakerplans.

but is it not great that you can speak freely on fsp..... this topic would of been locked on sp and members banned...... smiley33