Starting a new starter system.

To build or not to build, that is the question.

I introduced and stated some of my background in the introductions thread, and this is the part where i said i would be talking about the new system i want to start up with my investor/friend/partner. We've been kicking the idea around for quite some time now, him wanting to buy a system for his house party/friend rentals, me telling him i could build it or use contacts/known used sources to purchase it. my working budget is around 10k CAD, which converts to about 7300 euro, 6300 GBP, or 9800 USD.

So for this discussion, lets call it half that budget give or take a couple hundred of your prefferred currency.

this system will be a rental/small pub/house party/mobile dj rig. will also double as monitors when needed for the headliner shows the pop through the clubs in town.

1 sub 1 top per side, something simple and reliable like the qsc hpr 118 and 152. the wood ones, not the cheap plastic K series, wood go for KW if found for the right price but they have gone up in price since I last ordered a batch. not going to save a few bucks and get some crap mackie or yorkville setup, dont even mention behringer. another benefit to the QSC hpr/kw is I can source them locally for hires if there is ever a need for more, and i hate mix and match diff types.

Now for the building option,

1. Power-- Has to be an activ(ish) system, either a plate amp per speaker, or seeing the price point of these things, one 2-3 way plate amp in the sub with dsp to do the top with an additional NL4 out, could even be a single active 2 way plate with a passive xover in the top for the high/mid. Power amps are not rental/punter friendly, plus it puts too much money in a briefcase sized package, esp with a digi xover in it. Available options are www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/detail/17-pl...80-pwr-dsp2?sef=hcfp and i may have a dealer/buddy price available on www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/digmoda-amplifiers/

2. Size Limitations-- must be no bigger than your average single 18" sub and no more than a 15 mid on the top. In my head i was thinking it would be nice to find a driver for use in both the subs and mids to keep driver stock the same. ie horn loaded 12's or 15's in the sub with reflex or hornloaded mid's.

3. Drivers-- this is where it gets to be fun. This whole idea of the diy was built around the concept of using hemp drivers. My investor partner friends main business is he owns a couple of successful headshops in town. As such he has been the dealer for www.abrown.com/ for sometime now. ive watched his home website and have scoured the webs on these hempcones for sometime now, and what i have come up with is this old soundguy who knows how to recone and service gear, and has just shit for marketing. his site has been updated a few times, thiele/small parameters are only recently available on some drivers but are available by request on any model, and I'm about 98% certain he will recone anything in hemp. a little while ago my mate ordered up a bunch of his "hemphop" line of divers and we have a variety of them sitting around to play with. A few days ago i threw a couple pairs of the 6.5" coax www.hempcone.com/hemphop.com_new/hemphop_new_004.htm into some quickly made 3/4" mdf boxes to see how these things sound. very pleasantly surprised to say the least, the highs were smooth, warm mids punchy lows with the extension only reaching down to around 60 hz at the most. most definitely require a sub to fill it out so the next project is to put together a mini horn with the DVC 6" sub i got sitting next to me. will be a good chance to learn hornresp, akabak, and other various programs to see the ones i like and compare the results to the output. as far as construction goes, i have a woodshop with a granite topped tablesaw, plunge router/router table combo, and anything else needed to put wood together in any shape as well as the experience necessary to do it. ive built kitchens, vanities, built in closets and whole floors rooms.

the 2 drivers in question Im going to be leaning towards are his 10" and 15" neo drivers. going to have get more info on the 10 but here is what he has posted on the 15"
www.tonetubby.com/pdfs/specs/15_Neo_Superman.pdf

I realise the sensitivity could be higher, but its still not bad and imo, workable.

sorry if ive rambled on a bit and got distracted with what i was originally trying to say... damn kids runnin around and screamin underfoot. logic and maths are my strong suit, not words and sentences... any questions please ask and i would love to elaborate further. I'm only postring in here to get a discusssion going and work together with the more advanced designer/users around

Long story short, what would you build?

personally im leaning towards something like a powered cubo 15, with a 15 and 1" on a pole mount for the mid/high. EDM/djs will be the main user of these units.

the cubo is a good idea, nice sounding cab. Top wise you could look at an x12.....



you may need to adjust size to suit your drivers and adjust ports, but its a good starting place.

after hacking my way in hornresp for a bit, i dont know if the driver i want to use is going to be the best choice in a cubo, what with only having its ebp of 81.5. thinking it might be best off as a low mid in the top

www.tonetubby.com/pdfs/specs/15_Neo_Superman.pdf

is the specs of the off the shelf driver from the company itself. using some various tutorials and practice attempts with horn resp i got a decent smooth hump in 3 metere tapped horn but then when looking at driver excursion the results were none too pretty at rated power levels. I very well could be losing something in translation tho, thats one thing thats always pissed me off about manufacturers ratings in the sound biz, for example the wsx (original not the new WSXa, which i assume its ratings have just changed from the different driver inside)

martin says its a 600w avg, 2400w peak cabinet according to the manual
rcf says the L18p300 is 1kw AES, 2kw program, i think this driver has been upgraded since the original, AFAIK its the only thing changing the ratings on between the WSX and WSXa
I normally used a Labgruppen 6400 which has an EIA rating of 1300w per channel 8 ohm or a qsc pl 4.0 with a rating of 1000w EIA per channel 8 ohm, and on the odd occasion a crown macrotech 3600 when i had to throw a rackandstack together, which gives a mix of ratings at various freq, but we will say its 1120w FTC

wtf? and these are all the components from a stock system spec from the manual/manufacturer, and only one part of a 4way/5way system. nvmd car audio with its ratings and PMPO garbage

not being an electrical engineer, and getting tired of reading manuals and trying to remember stupid numbers from three different people to make one system i do as i always have done and just find generic rules of thumb to put in for system building, and then see what the real world does in the end.

Anywho, back to the actual subject matter at hand, my system build now.

sub-wise, i dont think my driver i want to use would be the best for a cubo, i'll retry it later when i turn my PC back on or get parallels running on my macbook. I have hopes for this driver and the whole point of this system is to be using the drivers from them. emailed him earlier asking for specs on his 10" neo drivers i see he has, maybe a double 10 sub would be fun. I prefer horns over direct rads for the low frequency extension when combined, and the weather proofing factor they impart on a driver by tucking it away in the box.

front loading direct is nice for the ease of combination with other systems tho, but this will be a system unto its own.

mid/high wise, I'm looking for a smaller package, along the size of a single 12 or 15 and a horn, had the idea of a rotatable horn guide for a more versatile box. if the vert dispersion on it was narrow enough i would almost even consider integrating hardware to make it a pseudo mini line array style system, i say pseudo cause it will be a long time, if ever, for there to be 6-8 boxes a side. plus i dont think a horn with a vert dispersion of 30+ degrees would ever qualify as "line array" (even tho it is just the mids doing the line array effect)

enough rambling, time to go make some sawdust for these caraudio subs i got sitting around. I already put the 6" coax into a couple of bookshelf style speakers just to hear them, dont remember dimensions off hand but the calc i used told me they would be good down to 80 hz with cutoff at 63, and my ears say thats what they sound like to me. and they sound clean. clean vox, highs are smooth, nice snap punch on the kick, just gotta move some low air for the sub octaves next.
I have all of these to play with and do whatever i feel like atm, might play with 12 in a cubo style box, we shall see.
www.hempcone.com/hemphop.com_new/hemphop_new_004.htm
www.hempcone.com/hemphop.com_new/hemphop_new_005.htm

What about a mpb-46?

so the start has happened already, cae across someone trying to flog a bunch of used gear in mint condition for the cheap and we bought it up.

so now we have 2 JerBL tops, the jrx 115, a powersoft q3002 4 channel amp, 3 powered yamaha tops and a yorkville powered sub, all for about 2k CAD.

so now we just needs some dsp and kick ass bass.

did you mean the MBP-46 as a sub? its an idea ive been plaving with, but more horn and a smaller rear port, kind if like the martin wmx.

check out other hybrid horn by marc o. mph46, mhb46, mtb46