Scoop v Something else.

bitzo wrote: I didn't hear an hog, but I'm really curious about that...I simmed it with B&c18tbx100 and with pd1850, very different beaviour. With pd less spl but have a lower lowend, lower than eminence scoop, cow (any mk), and superscooper. With b&c18tbx100 less flatter, less lowend but...an amazing about of db.

Somone have some feedback about different hog loading?


Cheers, bitzo

P.S. Tony W. I tested the bms in my altec 811 horn sound amazing smiley20

I heard the hog with 2 different drivers, the Void 1200 and a BMS 18N850v2 . It is one design of scoop that I am tempted to try with live bands.

Good news about the comp.

Tony

Warrior Charge Soundystem uses them in stoner rock festival with live band, loaded with b&c 18tbx100 under d&b c4. He's pretty satisfied .

How do they sound the Void and the BMS in your opinion?

cheers, bitzo

To be honest I was totally blown away with the amount of deep bass that just 3 hogs could give out. As I was demoing the BMS at the time and they were out of my own personal reflex boxes I had been pretty conservative with the LMS limiters on both type of drivers.

The Guy whose sound system it was Ben (Smithers) was pretty convinced that the BMS was cleaner and deeper than the Void but hand on heart I do not think I could be that confident.

All I can say is that they both made a hell of a pleasant noise, pleasant that is from where I was sitting 20m away at the bar. For the pepes making shapes close to the rig I would think it was a bit sick.

I am very tempted to build a couple of hogs and give them a thorough test on some different styles of music.

Tony

Reading the above posts makes me think that people are more interested in a cabinet for effect than anything else. A cabinet that will give more louder and lower bass than the last one, with less need to engineer the sound. It's obvious that a folded horn will give a more natural punch than a reflex cab, but when it comes to subs is a punchy sound needed. E.A.W produced both 2x18 subs and horn loaded subs, although I guess the horn subs were for long throw.
I mention all these points because I am fascinated to know what people expect from their designs. It seems, now that there are more bass designs to build than ever before, that there is more debate on what cabs is the best. I think the scoop bin debate will continue because although primarily, the design is roughly the same for all cabs, the construction dictates the various sounds that people hear. That's my ramble over.

Tony,

If I can find a design that gives me very deep bass and the type of sound and impact that I can get from my home monitor system then that is job done. At the moment reflex boxes gets me as close if not closer than any horn or band-pass system I have heard and scoops due to their many failings have never been in the picture.

The Hogs that I heard I felt were worthy of further investigation as to whether I would be happy to use them on the bottom 2 octaves on live music. Not for effect but just to get closer to the sound that I always try to achieve.

We do not have an argument about reflex boxes being the best compromise but I do like to keep an open mind.

Tony W

p.s. I obviously do not have the experience that you have with scoops so I am still learning.

It gets worse. The man I often quote, BP Sounds, who has much reflex stuff, mainly Opus & D&B has now told me he's been blown away by the spl of four Watco scoops he heard the other night! Loads of volume from just four cabs...
There needs to be a convertible cab, or a magic wand

This will always happen. At the end of the day, the only comparisons we can safely make, are listening to different cabs made by the same person using the same building standards with the most suitable speaker for each cab, same amps, same front end.
From an engineering point of view, knowing the limitations of your system, and driving it right to the edge are all important factors in creating your sound.
I ended up with a 48 box rig with 50k plus of amps and I know that because i've always been a user of the equipment, it obviously helped me with certain aspects of design. Gear on the road has to be strong. People complain about the weight of ASS speakers, but it's all for a purpose. I only ever did what was needed.
There are still people who will try to make a box as cheap and as light as possible. This is one of the reasons the debate will go on.
I started this thread because I know it's easy to make a cab that will beat a "scoop bin" regarding performance. Whether anyone wants to carry these heavy cabs around is another matter. When my customers ever made comments about weight price or size, I only ever asked one question. How good do you want to be?

Tony, That a double 18" reflex could be constructed that would beat hands-down the overall performance of any single 18"scoop I have no doubts. Whether it would satisfy the specific requirements of the Dub/Reggae enthusiasts is I think open for debate

Regards "how good" the answer is I am still trying to achieve the optimum balance of sound, power and size for my own specific requirements. smiley1

I really appreciate your point, especially considering that here in canada, 90% of soundsystems are 2x18s, and as many of them as they need(although i find theyre usually quite under spec. 4 2x18s for 1000 people? for jungle? with 30+ foot cielings? come on, try a little harder). if money is no object, then its rather easy to just throw as much power and 2x18s as you can at it.

but id bet that 2 18" full size scoops would be a fairr bit louder than the 2x18 with the same power, and for someone who only has two 18" woofers, and wants to get the most out of them, then hauling around bigger boxes is less of a deal if he doesnt have as many of them as hed like anyway!

this someone is pretty much me, finding drivers in canada for a decent price that are suitable for folded horns is tricky, since eminence (one of few that are quite easy to source in canada)make a few decent scoop drivers at a budget pricepoint though, and i like the sound of scoops, so it seemed most effective for me to build some scoops!

am i wrong in my thinking here?

typical that my first post is playing devils advocate smiley36

We keep hearing of unavailable drivers around the world. Aus/NZ being quoted as bad, now Canada. Do these countries make it hard to import PD etc?